Thursday, July 23, 2009

53% ...and Rising

Rasmussen is reporting that 53% of those polled are now AGAINST socialized...err, Obamacare. Victor Davis Hanson explains why in a post over at National Review Online:

It’s clear that Americans are mad at Wall Street crooks and corporate elites who took mega bonuses despite falling profits. But why does that mean the government, in its quest for more regulation, now targets job-producing small and family businesses with steep new taxes and health-care regulations?

In other words, the medicine of big government is even worse than the original disease on Wall Street, and the falling polls for the president’s initiatives show the American people are catching on to this.


Anonymous said...

The fact that the great unwashed public does not understand the subtleties of the initiative is more a rallying cry for better education (or less Fox News, I supppose) than a doctrinal stance against what amounts to a perfectly reasonable approach to curbing downstream healthcare costs. Obama is clever enough to acknowledge that what is popular is not always right and what is right isnot always popular. The aging boomer cohort will sure as $hit owe him one a decade from now, cry as they might today.

Rumbler said...

Thanks for you post. In your opening statement you say more about the liberal mindset than I could say in 10 essays. This is how liberals, or more exactly, statists see everyone else: the "great unwashed." These poor ignorant people who disagree with their stupid to ever understand the "subtleties." Yes, the public are just children that need to be led by, well, the smart ones like us!

There is nothing "perfectly reasonable" about the bills that are in Congress right now. Whether the issue is the total destruction of the current private system, rationing of health care for seniors, or federally funded abortions, this thing is horrid.

Obama is "clever," all right, he is leaving Congress to do the heavy lifting of his socialist agenda, and unlike Clinton, who was a pragmatist, this one is an ideologue and thus, he is not driven by polls. He has an agenda and is trying to get it shoved through without the American (oh, that's right, them there dumb rednecks that can't read) people actually getting a chance to study what is being proposed.

Your final point about the boomer cohort is hysterical! They are the ones that will pay the high cost of losing quality health care. As they age, they will be the first to experience the rationing and the rejection of treatments that might extend their poor stupid, ignorant, unwashed lives.

You people are really sick. 90% of Americans have health insurance and EVERYBODY can be taken care of in the existing system. Of course there are areas where we can control costs and improve efficiency, but we need not wreck the #1 system in the world to do this.

For me, allow me to have the freedom to choose. Keep your damned mandates and taxes away.

Anonymous said...

"There is nothing "perfectly reasonable" about the bills that are in Congress right now. Whether the issue is the total destruction of the current private system, rationing of health care for seniors, or federally funded abortions, this thing is horrid."

the private system is unimaginably inefficient. you are arguing in favor of a flawed system that only works for the insurance companioes themselves. i am always astouioded at how the right lines up to defend the insurance industry as if tehy are all white knights in it fohr the healthcare instead fo greedy chimps only interested in the bottom line. profiting by denying coverage and such is hardly noble. so can it.

and we need to ration healthcare for seniors. this is some awfully simple math. follow with me: numnber of boomers retiring will go A)up B)down C)all of the above?

Next: The existing infrastructure can support them all 1) not at all 2) not remotely 3) are you on drugs?

So, a heart valve for someone 101 years old will have to be paid for in cash. hope you are saving.

this all biols down to those with the ability to extrapolate current problems and see the future looming, and those who will sit in a cave and stare at the wall until it is far too late. healthcare here in the US is adequate for the moment, but in 10 years... we will haave DOUBLED the number of old and inform people who need massively increased levels of care. Can you not do that math? or do you just not care?

Ther fact that it is not YET a crisis should not be your argument. If we listen to you we are guaanteed a crisis eventually.

Hooray for those with the will and inrtellect to head off a disaster or 2 before they happen...

(aside: you ever wonder WHY the really intelligent people in the world are liberal far and away more than conservative? "These poor ignorant people who disagree with their stupid to ever understand the "subtleties." Yes, the public are just children that need to be led by, well, the smart ones like us!" Well.. YES! there are a giant number of people far too dumb to even recognize their own self-interest here in america. When all of the Nobel laureates, academics, theoreticians, philosophers, and on and on all think one way, and all the toothless hicks making meth and inbreeding feel the other way... ever consider that it is because YOU dont get it? this is not the fault of the idea itself... Not everything has 2 sides. Sometimes there is a right answer and a wrong answer. If the smart guys say 2+2="4" and you say 2+2= "nasal polyps"...)

Rumbler said...

Brilliant! Thank you for openly admitting that you folks DO want to ration health care. And, in true statist fashion, you believe in a pie that never gets any larger. That is the mindset that kept Stalinist Russia in the Dark Ages. Our medical system is the most innovative (that's how progress happens) in the world and you want to destroy it. I don't. How many doctors are you going to need in your statist system? And how many will leave once the government takes over and tells them they will have to violate their Hippocratic Oath?

No one is saying that there is not room for reform in the system. But nothing warrants the Stalinist takeover of our health care system! For example, we could dramatically lower the cost of the insurance if we change tort law and put in a "loser pays" system. Then physicians might not have to run CYA tests and carry hideous malpractice insurance.

As for your final paragraph you are, sadly, very ill read. Both conservative and liberal sides have people of great intellect and passion. The legislation currently being proposed is really neither - it's statist. You have a dim view of the American people, something I do not share. I look out at my fellow citizens, from coal miners to nuclear engineers - NASCAR fans to opera attendees - and I see the promise of America, I see opportunity and brilliance. I know too, because I have served with them, that these people do NOT need to be led like sheep - a happy system you envision where people like you get to choose who "wins" and who "loses," no, they can do it themselves. That is what made this country great and will continue to do so - not some bureaucrat in Washington. I genuinely fee sorry for you - you understand so little of what American is and will continue to be as long as we maintain our freedom.

Anonymous said...

there is no "stalinist takeover". You are getting all sorts of rabid over things that are simply not true. I find that this is a recurring theme on the right... (oh, and healthcare is rationed NOW, clever guy... it is just rationed by the insurance companies. What the flying (expletive deleted) do you think "preexisting condition - CLAIM DENIED" means???) you really have a boner for those insurance companies...

so, lets stroll along memory lane a minute. Remember when the DOW falling was obama's fault, and we were all doomed? (Oh... well, it stabilized, and america still exists). Remember when Obama actually being cordial to the rest of the world's leaders was supposed to doom us all? (huh. We seem to have better working relationships all over the place. The CHINESE are working with us on N Korea!) And when those things don't happen, you find something else that will also not happen to whine about.

Don't you ever get sick of being afraid of imaginary things? Wait a tick... there's a monster under your bed, too! BE VERY AFRAID!!!

As far as your little thesis at the end there... I contand that I am a far better american than you, because i acknowledge that it is deeply flawed and can do better for the people. You are content to maintain the status quo until that final day when it all comes crashing down. This is what i am talking about when I say that those with downstream vision are smarter than those who only look backwards. Not what it IS, but what it COULD BE.

And lets be nice and honest here... the average Bud-swilling NASCAR fan has literally no idea what fiscal policy entails. Ditto healthcare, foreign policy, research and development... they literally know NOTHING. that is not a naturally tenable position for the future well-being of america as a whole... stupid people have stupid opinions based on the opinions of others anyway.

I will gleefully continue to support a progressive future no matter how many people listen to Hannity and Rush, thinking that it qualifies as being 'informed'. Just because the lowest common denominator are all easy to hoodwink does not change the relative merit of sweeping healthcare reforms.

Rumbler said...

The hoodwinking victim is you, my friend. It is pointless to continue arguing with someone that ignores the reality of the facts. Name ONE example of a successful government takeover of health care. England? NOPE. Canada? NOPE. Tennessee? Damn near broke us. Hawaii? Ended after 7 months.

Thank God this is still a free country. If we can keep the likes of your ilk away from the throttles of power (and loose the grip of the Aparatchiks in DC now) we will remain that way. I've got to go open a Bud.

P.S. Have you noticed that the stock market moves in the exact opposite of Obama's popularity...O down equals real hope.

Anonymous said...

"is pointless to continue arguing with someone that ignores the reality of the facts"

Well, that is surely true. Everything I said is factually accurate. "Reality has a well-known liberal bias" and all that. Stupid people are stupid (a tautology, but it is a place to start). Are you contending that healthcare is NOT rationed, right this moment, by every insurance company on earth? (that would be damned hard to support there big guy...) And just as true, the 'conservatives' only talk about the short term, and have no longview. stated fact. Same deal with foreign policy. More engagement the world over. China actually playing ball from time to time. It's not magic. It is the FUTURE.

Want an example of an excellent government-run healthcare program? MEDICARE. Find me someone who has Medicare, that desperately wants to get rid of it in favor of Conseco or Aetna or whatever. (Not only would they certainly be denied, but they wouldnt be able to pay for it anyway.) See how smart I am, and how pointlessly afraid of boogeymen you are? Social Srecurity works pretty well, too. Lifted millions of seniors out of poverty. Which was its stated goal. the fear you must carry in your head every day is stunning. do you have high blood pressure? heart palpitations? (i hope not... nobody will cover those preexisting conditions!)

QED. (and the winner is... me!)

Rumbler said...

Your hubris is only slightly larger than your ignorance. mean that wonderful program that was supposed to cost $12 Billion in 1990 (from the 1966 projections) that cost $110 Billion? That one? The same one that is projected to be insolvent by 2019?

And then you site Social Security - what a hoot! You probably actually think you will receive it!

Thank God the American people (53% and rising) are far smarter than you.